TappedIn notes, July 11 Meeting, am - Online Discussion

Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 08:58:55 -0700 (PDT)

FeliciaG: Karen, if you look at the Weblogs and Beyond conversation from this morning you will see some of what we've been thinking.

PaulA: So let's consider one question that I saw this morning

MarcieW: Is there an agenda for this?

KenS: an agenda - - we have top go back to our wiki page!

PaulA: By the way... if you ever do this with a group of teachers or students...

PaulA: don't try to help people set up AND moderate at the same time.

FeliciaG: The prompt for the chat is our response or reaction to what we've read about our thinking about technology now.

PaulA: So what could we think about doing this fall?

KenS: the last time i tried to use blackboard's discussion feature my students tried to do chat like this with it instead of creating a discussion.

PaulA: There seems to be some consensus around doing short workshops.

KenS: maybe a set of workshops for different purposes

PaulA: but could these add up to a whole 4-credit course?

FeliciaG: 1: Hire Ken to do at least one and possibly three workshop series on technology.

PaulA: How many hours would that be? Would it be 3 credits?

MarcieW: by short workshops do you mean, say, 3 or 4 sessions?

KateNM: It seems like short focused workshops suit one sort of need, but there are those who might benefit from something more intensive

FeliciaG: this is way is too fast and we need someone to pull all of this stuff together and make sense of some of it.

KenS: felicia, or was it you kate that suggested different workshops for consultants and others for teachers

MarcieW: what is a workshop series, Felicia? how many sessions?

KarenGr: Would the idea be that there might be something intensive for folks that want that and also some shorter workshops?

FeliciaG: we need different workshops for teachers and consultants because the consultants need to be in the lead. However, that doesn't mean that consultants couldn't take workshops designed for teachers and vice versa.

PatsyWo: What difference does it make that it's like a party? What kind of communication is this where most people aren't listening?

NancyAM: I'm thinking of a workshop series of probably 3 or 4 sessions. We have tech money that we can use to actually pay people to attend some of these.

PaulA: We need two sessions each month, I think.

PatsyWo: If we do 2 per month, let's not have both on Saturday.

KateNM: But we also had this idea of a more intensive 2-3 day retreat, or some form of the First Saturdays (maybe more intensive than once a month)

PaulA: Is that too many?

KenS: should we talk about what we're going to present in thee workshops before deciding on how many there will be?

FeliciaG: Who is going to do and attend two sessions a month? I think before we can decide on how long or how much we need to decide on what.

MarcieW: we should be clear about the goals of the workshops, then what we will present.

PaulA: Could we start with a retreat... so that it gets kicked off with a lot of attention?

KenS: i agree with marcie

PaulA: Ah goals.

KateNM: Is this the ONLY set of workshops, or will there be different tracks for different purposes???

KateNM: exactly

FeliciaG: Who would we invite to the retreat? Former techies with NYCWP? anybody?

KenS: maybe we can pick up on what kate is saying

MarcieW: What are we trying to make happen through these workshops?

PaulA: I'd be happy for the different tracks, but would we have enough people?

PatsyWo: I think more learning would take place if we had concentrated time for discrete modules. Two weeks four times, twice a week for four weeks. Three days in a row during a break from school. Repetition close together in time.

KenS: different tracks can happen at different times

PaulA: So... let's all focus on purpose for a while, okay?

FeliciaG: We have multi purposes depending upon who we are serving.

PaulA: Why do we want to have technology workshops?

KenS: one purpose ought to be to get the folks who are running workshops in tune with one another

KateNM: It seems like we identified a need for several things: 1/ support for beginners/new users, 2/ focused workshops on useful implementations of tech (like creating online gallery walks), and 3/ support for intermediate/advanced users

PatsyWo: to get students writing to communicate

FeliciaG: To help teachers learn to use computers more effectively - in terms of supporting and promoting writing/literacy - with students.

NancyAM: I think we need to be aware of the divide I spoke about and that we need a retreat that will introduce interested people who are just beginning with blogs and those who are ready to go further and investigate other things, like wikis and podcasting.

KenS: maybe patsy and i can talk about how the NRI group would have been different if it were introduced properly to the blog

FeliciaG: But blogs aren't the only thing.

KenS: and then decide if something similar should be done for all other classes.

MarcieW: I see as one overarching purpose the need to get technology more integrated into our inservice work, rather than "doing technology."

KenS: how many courses should be using blogs, wiki's etc.

KateNM: marcie, that seems important

PatsyWo: I think the NRI people wanted more time together in a lab setting to practice with support at their elbows.

KenS: and then decide on what can be done with the different tracks

FeliciaG: There are some teachers who may want and feel more comfortable starting with using word to track changes as a way of integrating revision with computer use.

MarcieW: I think the track function is an important tech integration.

PatsyWo: Tracking changes is Word is good. Do we have any focus for our purpose here?

PaulA: A different purpose needs to be gathering together people who are starting to use this stuff to think about it together.

FeliciaG: Paul, that would be our Tech Advisory Committee, no?\

PatsyWo: Thinking about this together to what end?

KarenGr: What Marcie said about integrating technology with our other work seems important, yet hard to do in some ways.

MarcieW: that's why it's a goal.

FeliciaG: Thinking together to decide what makes the most sense in terms of our (NYCWP) other values and goals.

KateNM: karen--yes, because it can't be top-down. We can't tell tcs to use tech, they have to become comfortable and then decide how it fits in

PatsyWo: Could this setting become the classroom?

MarcieW: explain

PaulA: What about Fridays... what would integrating technology into the Friday's look like?

KenS: if we are defining folks by there comfort zone with technology, we ought to talk about which technology to present to them and which wp practice goes with it

FeliciaG: What does it take to become comfortable with technology? Sometimes you need a law to make people accept the untenable.

PatsyWo: It takes time to become comfortable, lots of time for some.

MarcieW: I agree with Felicia. We said that everyone needed to use Nicenet to meet Lehman requirements for course hours. That seemed to work.

KenS: kate, should we then 'pair' people together then?

KateNM: Well, for example, we need the people who are comfortable with tech to be there, supporting, suggesting, maybe co-teaching. Nicenet, yes, that's easy. But the more complex stuff has to be more than mandated

PatsyWo: Nicenet is working better now, but it has been a process. There have been teachers who hold out against it.

KateNM: it has to be well supported

PatsyWo: Support is key.

MarcieW: I don't mean that we should stay with Nicenet.

PaulA: The Nicenet example would also suggest (I think) that there needed to be more time to discuss how it is going... find new ways of using it...

FeliciaG: tcs are actually using nicenet in many ways. they find it easy. i didn't find any of this easy.

NancyAM: Each of us who decided to take the tech course this past year had a need and a desire to learn the technology. I keep thinking that it was like when I learned about writing workshops. I needed time to play and to think about the possibilities for myself and my students. I think the same holds true for people learning technology. it is going to take some time but people also have to have a sense that they need this.

MarcieW: and that the Writing Project needs this.

PatsyWo: We could ask people who have taken part in Nicenet to evaluate it for us. That could be the survey I was talking about before.

FeliciaG: maybe should look back at how far we've come?

KenS: how different is nicenet to blackboard?

KateNM: I would love to see us having a beginners' track in our technology plans: a group for people to work at a slower pace, go from fear and aversion to seeing what the point is and how to do it

PatsyWo: When I took my first summer course, we were using scissors and tape to cut and paste!

FeliciaG: I like the idea of asking teachers to evaluate their use of nicenet. But I don't think we can rely on a survey for direction because I think there is too much that teachers don't know about technology.

MarcieW: would it make sense for some WP courses to have Blackboard sites? I can make this happen.

PatsyWo: Rather than a track, a tack. I think we need to consider the needs of beginners and be ready to address them.

KateNM: Ken you'd have no trouble with Blackboard --with perhaps a basic intro workshop for the less tech-savvy

KenS: i'm not crazy about blackboard

KateNM: Ken me neither

MarcieW: I'm not either, but it's a good intro kind of thing.

KenS: my students have had a hard time navigating through its layers to get to the task at hand

PatsyWo: Is there an advantage to blackboard over Nicenet? Teachers have gone on and created their own classes and used it with students. Does blackboard offer this option?

MarcieW: I haven't had the same experience with students -- they've been okay.

KateNM: But Blackboard does provide a space for people who are just getting comfortable with ed tech

FeliciaG: Why are we talking about blackboard and nicenet? Is that something that we really want to offer teachers? tcs certainly know nicenet.

KarenGr: I've never actually used Blackboard. Is the main issue that it's hard for students, or it just doesn't do what you want?

KenS: the other thing about blackboard is that it's closed to the public PaulA: Nicenet is too...

KenS: it's both karen

KenS: and i want the work of my students to be public

PaulA: Who has access to Blackboard?

MarcieW: me

KenS: i need to promote things because i'm looking for grants

KateNM: Blackboard (Bb) allows you to customize things beyond the discussion board. And you can roll over course materials, for example, if you add lots of links or article PDFs or what-have-you

PaulA: http://blogs.writingproject.org/blogWrite44/discuss/msgReader$1079?y=2005&m=7&d=11

KenS: i have access to blackboard from ITHS

PatsyWo: Nancy and Julie report that students have been okay too. Those taking the course for credit have generally been willing. Some doing it for money have struggled--or rather not struggled enough.

NancyAM: I'm with Kate we need a series of workshops for beginners. They should be small or if they are larger they should have lots of interns who can offer support as the facilitator moves ahead with those who are getting it. I’m not sure about Blackboard. It does offer more options than nicenet but nicenet is teacher friendly and can be used with students.

FeliciaG: Who can we call on to be interns?

PaulA: What does it mean to be a beginner?

MarcieW: kids

MarcieW: that was a response to Felicia

FeliciaG: What kids? How do we identify them? A good idea.

KenS: a beginner is someone who might be new to the technologies we want to present in a workshop

KateNM: And frankly, some people are not beginners so much as phobic

KateNM: "And that's okay

KenS: maybe some of paul's kids or others from the schools that have been blogging since the spring

KateNM: Beginners self select...

PatsyWo: I think it's a matter of being scared. Some new to computers have no fear.

FeliciaG: Where do we start? I'm getting frustrated. At least in a real conversation people have to take turns. And my spelling is deteriorating.

KateNM: Though we might encourage some people to leap to a non-beginner group at the outset of a course

KenS: i think the phobia thing can be overcome once folks can see and the usefulness of technology in their classrooms and are given the time to create something they will use in their classroom

KateNM: Exactly.

MarcieW: this is a little OT, but can we think about some pilot classrooms within our inservice program?

KateNM: I worked with phobic/beginners this last year and they just need exposure and time and space

KateNM: Marcie do you mean inservice seminars focused on tech

KateNM: ?

KenS: kate, folks also need software to go home with too.

KateNM: ken yes

PatsyWo: It comes back to motivation. If teachers can see that their classes and their students will really benefit, they will come aboard.

KateNM: exactly

MarcieW: no I mean TCs working with a teacher who has access to and wants to use tech

KarenGr: Also follow-up afterward--I think it takes many people some time to get used to using something new in the classroom. I'm sure we've all had experiences of learning about something in a workshop but finding it hard to use if in the classroom. PatsyWo: You need to practice at home--a lot.

KenS: yes patsy

PaulA: Practice needs purpose.

FeliciaG: We have so many ideas. let's start with a 3-day retreat in the fall. During 11:20 - 12:30 we were supposed to lay out the when, where, and who. See agenda on Wikki.

PatsyWo: In order for me to devote the time, I have to know the pay off for me.

PaulA: Okay should we talk in person?

PaulA: We'll loose Marcie and Karen.

PatsyWo: Sure

MarcieW: no problemo

KenS: hey patsy, there might be some cawfee

PatsyWo: That sounds great!

KateNM: We should think about other real-time discussion options that maybe allow for people to take turns and make statements and respond more

KarenGr: I'll be eager to hear where the in-person discussion ends up.

PatsyWo: Paul, you've got some sorcerer's apprentices.

KateNM: We should blog about it

FeliciaG: Paul, I was going to say that we'll lose Marcie and Karen if we talk in person. Maybe they can send us their ideas about who, where and when. A small group is going to have to be responsible for pulling this together anyhow.

NancyAM: I have to say that this way of having a conversation is just too scattered for me. I can't digest ideas or really think through anything. I've got a headache.

MarcieW: this discussion, however scattered, provides good data -- lots of fast idea generation that can be picked over and thought through later. I'm off now.

Salient questions and suggestions and novel ideas:

Questions PatsyWo: Could this setting become the classroom?

MarcieW: explain

KenS: if we are defining folks by there comfort zone with technology, we ought to talk about which technology to present to them and which wp practice goes with it

FeliciaG: What does it take to become comfortable with technology? Sometimes you need a law to make people accept the untenable.

PatsyWo: It takes time to become comfortable, lots of time for some.

MarcieW: I agree with Felicia. We said that everyone needed to use Nicenet to meet Lehman requirements for course hours. That seemed to work.

KenS: how different is nicenet to blackboard?

MarcieW: would it make sense for some WP courses to have Blackboard sites? I can make this happen.

KateNM: Ken you'd have no trouble with Blackboard --with perhaps a basic intro workshop for the less tech-savvy

KenS: i'm not crazy about blackboard

PaulA: What does it mean to be a beginner?

KenS: a beginner is someone who might be new to the technologies we want to present in a workshop

KateNM: And frankly, some people are not beginners so much as phobic

KateNM: "And that's okay

KateNM: Beginners self select...

PatsyWo: I think it's a matter of being scared. Some new to computers have no fear.

FeliciaG: Where do we start? I'm getting frustrated. At least in a real conversation people have to take turns. And my spelling is deteriorating.

KateNM: Though we might encourage some people to leap to a non-beginner group at the outset of a course

KenS: i think the phobia thing can be overcome once folks can see and the usefulness of technology in their classrooms and are given the time to create something they will use in their classroom

KateNM: I worked with phobic/beginners this last year and they just need exposure and time and space

Suggestions About Using TappedIn
PaulA: By the way... if you ever do this with a group of teachers or students... don't try to help people set up AND moderate at the same time

Workshop series/Format -
PaulA: There seems to be some consensus around doing short workshops.

KenS: maybe a set of workshops for different purposes

PaulA: but could these add up to a whole 4-credit course?

FeliciaG: 1: Hire Ken to do at least one and possibly three workshop series on technology.

PaulA: How many hours would that be? Would it be 3 credits?

MarcieW: by short workshops do you mean, say, 3 or 4 sessions?

KateNM: It seems like short focused workshops suit one sort of need, but there are those who might benefit from something more intensive

MarcieW: what is a workshop series, Felicia? how many sessions?

NancyAM: I'm thinking of a workshop series of probably 3 or 4 sessions. We have tech money that we can use to actually pay people to attend some of these.

PaulA: We need two sessions each month, I think.

PatsyWo: If we do 2 per month, let's not have both on Saturday.

KateNM: But we also had this idea of a more intensive 2-3 day retreat, or some form of the First Saturdays (maybe more intensive than once a month)

PaulA: Is that too many?

PaulA: Could we start with a retreat... so that it gets kicked off with a lot of attention?

KateNM: Is this the ONLY set of workshops, or will there be different tracks for different purposes???

PatsyWo: I think more learning would take place if we had concentrated time for discrete modules. Two weeks four times, twice a week for four weeks. Three days in a row during a break from school. Repetition close together in time.

KenS: different tracks can happen at different times

PaulA: What about Fridays... what would integrating technology into the Friday's look like?

NancyAM: I'm with Kate we need a series of workshops for beginners. They should be small or if they are larger they should have lots of interns who can offer support as the facilitator moves ahead with those who are getting it. I’m not sure about Blackboard. It does offer more options than nicenet but nicenet is teacher friendly and can be used with students.

Audience –
KenS: felicia, or was it you kate that suggested different workshops for consultants and others for teachers

KarenGr: Would the idea be that there might be something intensive for folks that want that and also some shorter workshops?

FeliciaG: we need different workshops for teachers and consultants because the consultants need to be in the lead. However, that doesn't mean that consultants couldn't take workshops designed for teachers and vice versa.

FeliciaG: Who would we invite to the retreat? Former techies with NYCWP? anybody?

PaulA: I'd be happy for the different tracks, but would we have enough people?

NancyAM: I think we need to be aware of the divide I spoke about and that we need a retreat that will introduce interested people who are just beginning with blogs and those who are ready to go further and investigate other things, like wikis and podcasting.

KateNM: I would love to see us having a beginners' track in our technology plans: a group for people to work at a slower pace, go from fear and aversion to seeing what the point is and how to do it

PatsyWo: Rather than a track, a tack. I think we need to consider the needs of beginners and be ready to address them.

Purpose/Goals –
KenS: should we talk about what we're going to present in these workshops before deciding on how many there will be?

FeliciaG: Who is going to do and attend two sessions a month? I think before we can decide on how long or how much we need to decide on what.

MarcieW: we should be clear about the goals of the workshops, then what we will present.

MarcieW: What are we trying to make happen through these workshops?

FeliciaG: We have multi purposes depending upon who we are serving.

PaulA: Why do we want to have technology workshops?

KenS: one purpose ought to be to get the folks who are running workshops in tune with one another

KateNM: It seems like we identified a need for several things: 1/ support for beginners/new users, 2/ focused workshops on useful implementations of tech (like creating online gallery walks), and 3/ support for intermediate/advanced users

PatsyWo: to get students writing to communicate

FeliciaG: To help teachers learn to use computers more effectively - in terms of supporting and promoting writing/literacy - with students.

MarcieW: I see as one overarching purpose the need to get technology more integrated into our inservice work, rather than "doing technology."

KenS: how many courses should be using blogs, wiki's etc.

PaulA: A different purpose needs to be gathering together people who are starting to use this stuff to think about it together.

FeliciaG: Paul, that would be our Tech Advisory Committee, no?\

PatsyWo: Thinking about this together to what end?

KarenGr: What Marcie said about integrating technology with our other work seems important, yet hard to do in some ways.

MarcieW: that's why it's a goal.

FeliciaG: Thinking together to decide what makes the most sense in terms of our (NYCWP) other values and goals.

KateNM: karen--yes, because it can't be top-down. We can't tell tcs to use tech, they have to become comfortable and then decide how it fits in

Themes/Workshop focus –
KenS: maybe patsy and i can talk about how the NRI group would have been different if it were introduced properly to the blog

FeliciaG: But blogs aren't the only thing.

KenS: and then decide if something similar should be done for all other classes.

FeliciaG: There are some teachers who may want and feel more comfortable starting with using word to track changes as a way of integrating revision with computer use.

MarcieW: I think the track function is an important tech integration.

PatsyWo: Tracking changes is Word is good. Do we have any focus for our purpose here?

Strategies –
KenS: kate, should we then 'pair' people together then?

KateNM: Well, for example, we need the people who are comfortable with tech to be there, supporting, suggesting, maybe co-teaching. Nicenet, yes, that's easy. But the more complex stuff has to be more than mandated

PatsyWo: I think the NRI people wanted more time together in a lab setting to practice with support at their elbows.

KenS: and then decide on what can be done with the different tracks

KenS: kate, folks also need software to go home with too.

Novel Ideas

PatsyWo: We could ask people who have taken part in Nicenet to evaluate it for us. That could be the survey I was talking about before.

FeliciaG: maybe should look back at how far we've come?

FeliciaG: I like the idea of asking teachers to evaluate their use of nicenet. But I don't think we can rely on a survey for direction because I think there is too much that teachers don't know about technology.

FeliciaG: Who can we call on to be interns?

MarcieW: kids, that was a response to Felicia

FeliciaG: What kids? How do we identify them? A good idea.

KenS: maybe some of paul's kids or others from the schools that have been blogging since the spring

MarcieW: this is a little OT, but can we think about some pilot classrooms within our inservice program?

KateNM: Marcie do you mean inservice seminars focused on tech?

MarcieW: no I mean TCs working with a teacher who has access to and wants to use tech

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